Uh-oh, news not as good as I had hoped, RP people have put their hourly rate up.... one loco shell is $112.80 inc GST, so with the headstocks we are probably looking at close to $150.

Hmmm, actually, that's not so bad - could have a highly detailed running loco for around $300 by the time one adds chassis and decoder, paint, decals etc.

So, any takers, or shall I flag it?

Regards, Paul.

Paul, I'm out...

...as mentioned in the other discussion, I'm looking for DX and DF models, I would have bought a Dc just to keep this good idea rolling but I have absolutely no need for a Da (no matter what phase) 

drive length: 97mm

drive width Atlas (SD35, SD24): 9.7mm / dimples: 10.25mm 

drive width Kato (SD7/9): 11mm / dimples: 11.5mm 

Thank you for the dimensions, Steve, 'tis much appreciated.  Incidentally, if it may be of interest, I can easily morph my DA CAD file into a DC, and the RP system can make any combination of the two at the same time.

Regards, Paul

Hi, yes put me down for both a Da and Dc,

Cheers

- wouldn't it be possible to build the headstocks at the same time as the shells (squeeze them somewhere in between the shells) and because the overall height of the shells is higher than the headstocks it would not even need more time to build the whole batch... ?

- do you know the resolution of the RP machine they are using ?

- will the Dc be a one piece shell as well or will the cab be a separate part ?

- where will the couplers be mounted, on the shell/frame or on the headstocks only ? (just asking because of the weight of a whole train pulling on the headstocks)

I am back in for one Dc... !

c'mon guys, where's the voice of the silent majority ? 

Already put order in!Great to see someone taking the next progression for the scale.I just hope theres enough of us to make it happen.(willing to spend dollars)

cheers

Stu

Hi All

Have joined the G12locomotives Yahoo! group and found some very useful pics and drawings to help things along.

To answer Steve's questions, I must leave it up to the RP peoples' judgement as to how best to build the parts.  They do make a good effort to achieve the maximum economy possible, I can assure everyone.

I don't know the resolution, only that it is a Perfactory SLA with 190x140mm bed and the finish on my 1/34 scale steam loco parts is superb, just like injection-moulded styrene but with no mould parting lines.

I am leaning towards making both shells one-piece; The footprint of the shells is the same regardless of whether the cabs are present or not, and six shells fills the bed nicely, so to make the cabs separately will probably require more than one shot, pushing the price up even more.

I want to do the headstocks with the end steps included, so the couplers will have to mount to this.  I am thinking the headstocks could have a tab on each side to screw to the body so no glue required at all.  It's a big maybe at this stage, until I can sit down and nut it out properly.  You'll just have to trust me to get it right, but don't worry; I am a mechanical engineer/draughtsman by trade, so I'm used to designing things so they don't break.

Regards, Paul

By the way, expressions of interest so far have us on our way to making two runs of 6.  In time I shall look to Australia to see if we can't interest SAR modellers in a G12 or two as well.

ok, ok, I was just asking... 

I would be in for a Dc, though  at the moment I have money on another project which I'm still waiting  for the fruition on it to come about.

On ya Paul ! Put me down for 1 Dc.

what was rong with the old 1 pice DC's??

Following up on my Motorised Dandruff comments, I can confirm my interest in 1 Da and 1 Dc for starters.

Model Train Stuff has SD35s at US$59.99. They are very good to deal with.

Cheers

Doug

The masters were assembled entirely from matchsticks by albanian grandmothers, and then cast from plasticine moulds by a hunchback who lived under a grotty student flat. The were finally hand assembled by blind one armed illterate peasants working for 50C a day.

(On a more serious note, They still do stand up to the current loco kits etches excepted)

pictures ?

Have a look on teh blog under Diesel locomotives. Theres a Dc and DBR from the same mold.

Theres another picture showing them next to an etch etera Dc, but I'm buggered if I know where it is.

just in case someone else would like to see the work of the blind one armed albanian grandmother:  http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rsy9UWmqQhc/S2Sqlbtat-I/AAAAAAAAAn4/7ob3wSNwgE4/s1600/4444-2.jpg

Nice model....  I don't need to bother with my RP shells after all....

Well, the master and mold are long since dead and gone. Sorry but you cant get out of it that easily. :v)

Some photos on the Showcase page as well.

Don't you dare... ! 

what's the Showcase page... ? 

Scroll up to the top of this page (or any other page on the nz120.org site) and you will find a "Showcase" link in the header next to the forums link.

oohps - thanks...

Hmmmm . . . cheeky question, but is there any chance of some RP'd bogie side frames too?

Funny you should ask, because I have been nutting out how I can build the whole drive, with accurate wheel spacings.  If I pull that off, then they will naturally require the correct sideframes.  I'm just chasing down the right size split-axle wheels at the moment.

I am not considering doing sideframes to fit any SD chassis' - the sideframes on these are near enough, and I cannot help feeling it is a waste of time creating new sideframes to suit inaccurate wheel spacings.

Regards, Paul

Wearing one of my work hats (as a Project Manager), can I suggest this is a classic case of "scope creep" (or in ordinary terms "moving the goal posts")?

Maybe split the project in two seperate deliverables, the top and the chassis, and then concentrate solely on one.  I would suggest that people would prefer to see a top with no chassis first that they can mount on a proprietry chassis first, then upgrade to a "decent" chassis later once it arrives.  Also, the top is easier to achieve....

Pushing out the timeframe of the whole project by trying to do both wont (in my opinion) help anybody.

I agree with Am Fet, getting one project out on time is better idea, though planning other projects to come after the other the shell project is also a good idea so you get a flow on. 

 Hi Paul

I'll order a Dc thanks.

Delivery in time for Christmas?

Could the fuel tank be designed as a fully baffled housing for say, a Loksound speaker?  

Great to see this progress Paul.

 Gary

Ahem.... I shall remind you all of what I said in my FIRST post:

"Now, please note that I do not intend to supply chassis', you must find your own."

Apologies if my previous post regarding accurate chassis gave anyone the idea I am going to produce these as well.  An accurate chassis will likely be (A) Hand-built and therefore very expensive, and (B) Only for myself, but I will make plans available for others to copy.  Any work done towards a chassis will have to follow on after the shell is complete.

What prompted my entertaining the idea of building a decent chassis was my having perused a NorthYard catalogue recently and realised that the 14-tooth 0.4mod gears stocked by Graham are smaller than the 40" drive wheels in NZ120 scale, so could be used to build an Athearn-style diesel drive.

Regards, Paul 

whakatane !

yes we know we have to use our own Atlas SD35 (Kato/Atlas SD7/9, Atlas SD24/26) drive...

...WHEN can we expect the shell ! ? 

Would it be worth-while having the folks interested in a shell 'prepaying' for their order into a 'kitty'?

Lol sorry it's just as I'm keen as to get my hands upon a couple of these shells! I was just about to start scratching building a Dc and Da having finished my drawings for them. However I will put these projects on hold as I believe the RP'd version will be so much better than what I can produce myself.....

oh. well, i boycott all albanian products on principle, so that's me out for the old ones . . .  i've seen 'aunt julia and the scriptwriter' (aka 'tune in tomorrow') . . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSAWCXT_fxg

as for aussies interested in G12s, well not SAR modellers. the old south australian railways was all EEs and alcos.

the BHP iron ore tramway at Whyalla in SA . . . only governments were allowed to run railways, so this line which rostered the heaviest trains in australia for many years was legally a 'tramway' . . . rostered a bunch of B-B G12s on standard and narrow gauges, but it is not a much modelled line, being in the main a mine to port/smelter one-traffic ore operation. however, i have a soft spot for the clean lines of their G12s and i would take one G12, when finances permit, things being tough in the UK at the moment.

QR had two varieties of G12 and there are one or two modellers of that system. WA had a few also.

Ben

I won't be asking for payment until I have the CAD model all sorted and price confirmed.  I will only produce the number of shells actually paid for, and it is highly likely that we will have to have them made in batches of six in order to obtain the price already quoted.  It costs nearly the same to run the machine regardless of whether the bed is full or not, so obviously Running Cost/6 shells is going to be better value than dividing the cost by 2 or 3 ;-)  There ARE some other RP projects in the wind which can possibly fill up gaps and thus keep costs down, but no guarantees, obviously.

With regard to timing, I have other projects that I must finish first, and everything must fit around The Day Job, so I am not expecting to have these done before August-September.

Regards, Paul.

Hello Paul

Thanks for your work on this. I've been offline for a while and have only just seen this thread.

Please let me know prices when these are known. I'm interested in 1 or 2 DC bodies that I can drop onto a commercially available chassis. I would want to know which commercial chassis the body was made to fit.

hi Paul,

any news about this project ?

cheers...

If eventually there is a dx dft 1 peice shell id be very interested but if you need another person in to fill another card then i guess i can push funds towards it.

Hi Steve

Not dead, but merely sleeping, it is.  I have been working to get existing projects completed (see Confessions of a Lazy Modeller topic) before I turn my attention to this.  Cannot say when I will get back onto it.

Regards, Paul

Right, well, having today seen the first RP NZ120 bogies first hand, I have formed the opinion that RP will not be satisfactory for a loco body - the detail just would not be crisp enough.  The bogies are fine, and roll well, but that's a story to be told eslewhere.  So....phase three Da in brass, coming up....at some unspecified date in the future.  I am expecting to have time to assemble them too, so they will be pretty much RTR, purchasers will just have to paint them.

Bugger!!Um...........just a question from a complete dumbarse from the wilds.................what does a phase3 Da look like?

cheers

Stu.

Scan from NZR&LS Locomotives & Railcars Handbook 1977.  In a nutshell, Ph3 not much different from Ph1, Ph2 was the 'special' with longer frames and fuel tank.
Regards, Paul.

what phase was the clyde built DAs, thats the 1.5 foot longer DAs.

Re-read (or should it simply be 'read'?) my post #43, or look at the drawing....all is answered there.

Hi Paul

Are you going to Do Dc's too?

well, it looks it depends where you let them RP and what resolution the RP machine is capable to handle - I have seen Mark4Design RP shells in Z scale and have worked with M4D RP shells in N scale and the details are very crisp and sharp and there are a lot of details on it - and if it works for Z and N scale it should be even better for TT scale...

...ask Mark to RP them, they may cost a dollar or two more but they are well worth the money. (Paul, did you see the DX bogie frames DB did let manufacture from M4D ? it can't get better than that !) 

To answer both preceeding questions in order:

Yes, I intend to do the Dc too.... silly to not consider it given how much artwork could be re-used from the Da

Mark's machine is the same breed as what was just used for the bogies, so I remain unconvinced.  Were the shells in RP resin or were they urethane castings taken from an RP master?  There are machines in Australia which might do a better job and for less cost per unit, but they have a much larger bed so to be economical we would have to be producing a large batch.  To put round numbers on it, unit cost might be reduced by a third, to $110 or so, but we would have to be assured of selling about 35 units.

It has just ocurred to me that the curves and complex corners at each end would be better done as RP resin, with only the flat long-hood sides and top, running boards and skirts in brass.  This would be a good compromise between detail, cost and ease of assembly (no fiddly folding of tiny bits of brass).

Regards, Paul

straight off the RP bed (from the blog).

it looks it's not just done with a CAD drawing and press enter on the keyboard to start the RP machine to produce the shells then... these pictures are from a N scale EMD SD38-2 shell out of Marks RP machine. it is difficult to photograph the orange resin parts but you can see some details on the pictures (klick on the pictures and an even bigger one will open). etched brass will not come even close to the details possible with RP. Mark did a lot of trial and error and spent a lot of time and money to reach this level of quality...