looking grait! keep up the good work.

looking good, what would be the difference between the mk1 and mk 2 versions?

The mkII will get some tweaking of the CAD drawing.

Because this was a test version I hadn't worried to much about "keying" the parts together, so I want to add that in.

Also it was a bit of a learning project to get some idea of what the laser could and couldn't do. Consequently some parts will need modifying to account for that.

Can I enquire if this will be released to the masses and when approximatly.

I don't have any problem with making the CAD files available online.

I do need to tweak the design first, then do another test etch or two before it could be uploaded.

So I haven't given any thought to timeframes as to when it might be made available.

A few more photos of the IC. Painted in Primer Gray to make the detail a little clearer.

This is probably as far as this test etch will get taken.

I added an Air Reservoir (obviously), but given how open the wagon is I think it will need more in the way of piping etc.

At the moment the empty wagon weighs 10 grams ,22 grams with the 40' container loaded.

Now according to the NMRA N Scale weight RP it should weigh 41 grams, so as with all wagons like this it will be next to impossible to get anywhere near that when empty. Something to worry about later...

(I use The N scale RP as a guide because a US N scale wagon is generally similar to an NZ120 wagon in terms of length and bulk)

The next step is to go back and make some changes to the CAD files. At the moment some parts don't laser that cleanly and other areas are probably to fiddly when it comes to assembly

So we will see how the mkII version goes.

Is the container  resin or white metal,  the other think you could do is put lead strips in the centre beam when you  put it togther

light wagons, all my flet are under waight (helps for big trains) ,Just run them at the backof the train.

Where did you get the bogies?  They look appropriately bulky, so are they a TrackGang product?

The first thing I'll look at to add weight is to wrap some solder around the wheelset axles, this works well, given that the weight is added down low. However given how open this wagon is it may be hard to be subtle with this. Obviously no problem adding weight to the container, but I would quite like to run some IC's empty...

Further down the track I may well look to cast either the deck or underframe beams (or both) in pewter to bump up the weight a bit.

Ideally I weight everything up to somewhere near the standard, that way any wagon can run in any position in the train, then no having to think about what goes where.

The container is a resin casting, about 10 years old, it had seperated itself from the UK it was on, hence its "availability" for the IC photo.

The bogies are brass one piece castings, again done about 10 years ago, designed to look like a generic Type 14/16/18, mainly in terms of size, these were also "stolen" off another wagon for the photos.

don,t tell me , thay were dune by dood how now lives in the uk?

There are a lot of things from about 10 years ago that were maed in brass, My bother has LCs LAs  and I have kinky bogies all maied in brass. the LC and LAs where (as told) biult by a man how live's in the UK now.    

No we got these bogies done ourselves, we also did some wagon detail parts in whitemetal such as underframe trusses, but no complete whitemetal or brass wagons.

so why arn't you making them any more ?

there are a lot of little jems out there that we look at but its a pity that thay dont go any further.

I'd be interested to know who produced those brass bogies (and sideframes). I'd like to invest in producing them as part of my product range.

Russ

To answer Manaia first, we stopped making the bogies because we had drifted to HO American modelling, so had no further need for the bogies.

Trackgang, there are a couple of issues with these bogies so I wouldn't be happy seeing them released onto the market in their current form.

And finally, what I will say is

Watch this space...

Do you think it would be viable to start produsing these bogies again?

regards Manaia

It may well be viable to produce these bogies again, but there are no plans to (for a couple of good reasons).

Have a look at Kiwibond's post on Motorised Dandruff's blog today (Feb 28th) and you will see why, and where I was leading with the "Watch this space" comment above.

Nice work there. A rake of empty/loaded units will look excellent. For the uninitiated, such as myself, what's the cost of lasering a single etch, ignoring material cost?

I ask because as I read this thread and other posts about laser etched styrene I thought: why are these not being lasered in metal? Now I understand that brass and the like are tricky to laser cut due to their high reflectivity, but what about good old steel? Sure it is more difficult to solder than brass or nickle-silver and of course it will rust if left to its own devices, but it would allow higher fidelity/accuracy, solve most of the weight problems and be much stronger. Is this viable? Perhaps someone can educate me in this matter, preferably without resorting to the cane!

Go Team Tinplate!

Douglas

I guess $15 is a good ballpark figure to use for the laser cost, not including material for one IC as seen above. I don't have an accurate unit cost as yet, given that the IC is still in the test stage, the mkII laser files will go to the laser shop in the next couple of days.
This varies a bit depending on the complexity of the cutting (i.e how many cuts and therefore how long for the laser to cut it) and the number of different materials (In the case of the IC two different thicknesses of styrene so two seperate laser jobs). We supply the CAD files to the laser man on flashdrive (or email) pretty much ready to go in his prefered format, obviously if he has to spend time tweaking the files there is potentially a cost here as well.
Now laser cutting of metals can be done, but its not readily available to the average man off the street. Its requires a high powered laser and more importantly a special laser lens arrangement. These are like hens teeth in your typical laser engraving place (the lens especially) and while these places generally have the ability to engrave some metals they can't cut. Pity really, it would be great to laser cut the underframe beams for the IC out of Stainless Steel, easy way of adding strength and weight.

Bugger. That is a shame that cutting is not more accessible. So, how does the lasering compare with a traditional brass etching in overall cost (ignoring the ease of assembly for plastic)? I have not tried etching anything so I have no base figures for comparison.

Thanks.

If I can just chime in here.....No?  Too late....

We (ie the small group who often stand around swapping silly ideas) have often thought that water abrasive cutting could be used to good effect on metal, but no one has ever really stepped up to the plate to try it.  I know Cabbage has been in touch with some firms in Lower Hutt about it...I'm not sure what the "fidelity" would be like (i.e the precision that it could cut, kerf size, etc), might have to check with him.

Brass etching is a completely different collection of marine vertebrates in a water heating device.  To my luddite mind, there is a lot more invovled in calculating the etching undercuts and what have you.  My other mental hurdle is that Cabbage uses a firm in Scotland that specialise in this sort of thing, and I dont quite like the idea of haveing to wait for 4 weeks to find I've screwed up on the drawing!  At least with how things work at the moment, I know roughly in a day which part of the drawing I've bolloxed up.

Yes, styrene does have its problems regarding weight.....but at the moment I am really trying to concentrate on getting people into the scale by providing them with materials and construction techniques they may have acquired from different modelling disciplines (planes, cars, etc).  If a person can get a feel for the scale by putting together one of our etches, assemble a train of cheap wagons hauled by a cheap locomotive (another pet project) and get "The Bug" (and no, I'm not talking about scrofulla), then the hope is there that they themselves will start to question and grow within the scale and begin to investigate other materials.

Sure, my IA in brass would be superb, but if someone pics it up thinking "How am I going to glue this with Tamiya cement" then we may lose them.

To answer your questions Capatain, I will track down Cabbage and get him to give an idea about the costs behind brass etching.

Heres an Idea,

I know theres a difference between styrene cutting and Brass/metal etching,  you could  produce both catering for the differnt level of modellers, and could market them for the beginner modeller and the experianced modeller when you sell them on.

Richard

There seems to be this perception in NZR modelling that unless it is etched in brass it is not an "advanced  model", this is just plain wrong.

I can't see the point in creating two versions of anything, we should be creating one version using the best techniques for any given part.

If I take the IC to its logical conclusion I see it being a mix of laser engraved styrene, resin or white metal/pewter castings and some photo etched brass along with one piece brass cast Type 18/22 bogies.

If I do it properly we will end up with an IC that is accurate and detailed enough to satisify the advanced modleler, but easy enough to put together that anyone is more than able to do it.

Im going to have a go at cutting this wagon on our CNC rounter at work. I will space the parts out a bit and tab them in using a 1mm wide tab about every 25mm apart. The finest cutting tool we use is 0.4mm. Can use an etching tool to scribe folds. I reakon the rounter should do a pretty neat and tidy job of cutting styrene. Will post some pics as I go.

Controversy! Strong words! Could this end in fisticuffs?! Probably not.

I had no intention of raising such hackles' between the various parties. My interest in brass etch stems from wanting to experiment, or at least understand what manufacturing techniques are available to me as a potential scratchbuilder (or at least someone who thinks he might scratchbuild something decent one day). Though I have attempted to scratchbuild in brass in 1:64 (with limited success), I would/will happily accept a model made of styrene, particularly if it is as impressive as the IC. Frankly, as long as it stays on the track, doesn't decay and looks the part, I don't care what it is made of.

As for having the potential fidelity of metal or high accuracy plastics, I don't want to be spending an evening straining to accurately attach a single stay bolt head to a 1:120 firebox! If I want that sort of detail I will join the 9-millers, or go up further to 1:24 (which I may actually do one day).

Abrasive water jet cutting, yes that is something I had pondered also in times gone by. Certainly the cut edges come out superb, usually ready for paint from what I have seen. However, Boba-Fettler (sorry, couldn't resist), I agree that fidelity might be the big issue for small items, but in 1:24 well, there's a thought.

Way back in my youth, one of the chaps from the Southland Society of Model Engineers was into NZ120. I recall he was experimenting with vacuum forming carriage rooves and possibly sides as well. I don't know how far he got with it, but it sounded promising. Some people here may know him (or even be him): Michael Eder, operated "Ace Toys Southland", may still do as far as I know.

iddy900, you fortunate, illegitimate child you! Access to a CNC sounds like loads of fun, or disaster in my case.

Hi from the deep south. Vacuum formed passanger cars did not do well and that project was shelved. Have thought about casing the ends and then putting a cear vacuumed formed sides and foor on but lacks window details so did not take it any futher.

i've vacuum formed quite a few coaches over the years and found that they were easy to produce.  the trick is to use vynal overlays for the windows.