By way of postscript as to chassis options, Alec F noted in his Aug. 2005 Journal article, that prior to the scratchbuilt model he describes, he had earlier built a Dh in Sn3.5 using an Athearn SW1500 as the power source/chassis - now it just so happens the MP15DC is EMD's new version of their earlier SW1500 series (with a number of detail modifications).

could be a good choice, though we would need to get larger wheels for it, I do know they are available for sale still from Atlas, hmm now this ponders a question for me, do I get a Dh a Dsc or Da/Dsa for my shunter for the Rotorua, Kinlieth Branch Line.

Yes - my DCC/sound equipped Atlas MP15DC mechanism is already on its way here - only "prob." with the Dh are their limited numbers, and stolid adherence largely to the Auckland area, from a prototype standpoint.

For NZ120 modellers the choice of a shunter type loco will largely be dictated by (1) personal whim/preference (2) modelling period choice (3) modelling location choice (4) "peer" pressure (5) finance.

Me, I will be going for one of each  Ds/Dsc/Dh ( plus the SAR Class 91 variant) because I like locos and have a sufficiently flexible layout design philosophy to maybe even allow a Big Boy or Challenger to operate on Pendarvian Railways and its through link to NZGR feeder lines.

For Rotorua/Kinleith you could very easily justify a Drewry Ds & a BTH Dsc for your shunting team - the Dh is a bit more of a stretch, if you wish to adhere to what the prototype has done.

Actually I'm still looking at the Da/Dsa, though I need to get a chassis, unless there is going to be a etch chassis option with the Da/Dsa. Prototype, kind of yes, I'm looking fifties track work with 80's locomotives, I like the idea of Kinlieths fifites Triangle coming off two feeder lines in stead of the one, and the fifites has more industries on the line compared to the 80's.

The NZ120 Drewry Ds set of etches project (as noted in that thread on this website), given its Worsley Works heritage, is planned to include an etched "fold-up" chassis & side rods etc to enable those modellers who don't want to "fettle" the Bachmann BR Class 08 mechanism to fit the body etch to build their own power chassis (note: no intention to supply wheels, motor, gearbox etc). 

The planned model is for the Ds class; as noted elsewhere, to construct a Drewry Dsa one would need a longer frame, hood and completely different cab, with sloped sides.

Hi WeeDuggie

It was probably me who came up with the figure for 26'3" between bogie centres from the 'Dieselshop' site. 

I think I prefaced that figure with some reservations, as this site has been wrong before, and I feel now without a doubt that the 26'3" figure must be wrong. 

Unfortunately I've not been able to find a U10B plan online anywhere in order to corroborate the 'Dieselshop' figure.  However, quite simply if the N scale MP15DC is right for the DH in TT, then the 26'3" measurement - and the idea of using an Atlas GP40 - is wrong. 

For a start, a real MP15DC has a wheelbase of only 24'2", a real GP40 has a 34' wheelbase, ie, a 10' difference!  

Note to self: never trust 'Dieselshop' site figures again.

PS/ It is however fantastic that you appear to have come up with a correct chassis anyway!  ConCor also do an MP15DC but I'm not sure the wheels from it could be replaced with larger ones.  I do not think that would be an issue with the Atlas ones.  I have a bunch of 7.5mm wheels with milled 1mm stub axles, that I think would be ideal.

Count me in for at least one of these beasts.

Ben 

No need for self flagellation Ben re possible chassis lengths - heck, Model Railroader published an incorrect drawing for EMD bogie sideframes for nearly 20 years before someone noted the fact and they fixed it - also as the GP 30/40/50 series of bogies are probably ok for a Dh type, one could always accept the challenge to shorten a GP40 et al chassis for a Dh anyway.

Just a note re the MP15DC chassis length - per my readings, evidently good ole EMD produced a number of variants for different US Railroads, so depending on which prototype one the Atlas or Concor designers used there could be slight differences in o.a length - good feature modelling in NZ120 is that each prototype 1 foot error translates into a mere 1/10" - less amplification. 

Will report back on wheel substitution options when chassis arrives - are a number of possible choices - not sure how simple or difficult the change may be.

Re your own GE U xx version - if you like South African version, with the short,low nose front hood, then you can order an etch for the SAR class 91, in correct TT scale from Allen right now - you then just need you mechanism - if you want a Dh, then I am still waiting to hear from Allen as to whether he wants to go ahead with a TTN3.5 version of the Kiwi ( & possibly other jurisdictions) "no nose hood" version 

I think I'd like the no hood version if at all possible.  Australia didnt have them, so I'd have to decide whether to do an NZ one or another passion of mine, Philippine National Railways.

Ben

So Weeduggie, you are planning to do a run of DH etches? I'm a bit behind the times here!!! I was going to scratchbuild one but if you guys are getting etches done I'd be wanting a couple.

This is my first post here.As Im a man of few words,Id say DITTO to what Alister has said!(they would be neat,wouldnt they?hehe)

Cheers stu.

In response to Coasterboy & Alister, I am still awaiting confirmation from Allen as to whether he wishes to produce the artwork for a TTn3.5  NZR Dh, so not able to confirm its production yet - expecting a response before the Convention, as well as the Atlas "donor" power mechanism - will post more once have a comment from the UK.

 " and the first shall be last" - progress on the BTH Dsc has been temporarily halted, after some initial headway on mechanism options, & like the Drewry Ds project both await their respective new TT scale trial etch bodies to test fit against the proposed power units ....... however, a welcome surprise ex the mail box this pm with the receipt of the Atlas MP15DC DCC equipped locomotive which I only ordered last week from a noted US model supply house -.... attached are a few pictures of it, with its C & NW body still attached - the jeweller's screwdrivers will be in operation tomorrow, to see how the 1:120 etch for the SAR Class 91 body etch looks in the fitting department against the "gubbins" - anyone want a C & NW body??? 

put the CNW shell on TradeMe, you will be surprised what you'll get for it... 

you can put me down for two etchings as well, thank you...

 the good old minitrix chasty look good and is close, I had 1 befor it had a 1.5 mt crash, It was a toetel  lose but is being rebuilt with corect truck sides. 

Well, managed quite simply to prise the rather nice superstructure off the MP15DC last evening - although the information sheet which accompanies the loco is mute on what to do, a little bit of initiative and suitable care allows one to squeeze out the sides, having unclipped the black plastic box between the bogies, and with a bit of jiggling, the one piece body slides up & off.

This reveals a typical Atlas mechanism, with the large white metal subframe protecting the motor etc - in the case of the one I bought, the DCC sound equipped chip is surmounted over this.

On offering up the Class 91 etch panels, everything appears to augur well for a neat fit - the deck frame cut-out is just about spot-on, and the side/cab panels are slightly taller than the white metal subframe, so no major maching of that block appears to be required.

Thus all that's required is the soldering up of the body etch, probably as a one piece unit for rigidty's sake, which should them be a "push fit" over the mechanism.

Having reduced the excellent Guild Journal plan from its larger scales, to the "chosen one", I can confirm that the bogies match length/axle spacings almost precisely to the TTn3.5 scaled drawing  & the GM-EMD bogie sideframes, although not exact, give a pretty fair representation of the GE ones that these came with - just those wheels to contemplate further on then.

So, based on the experience to date, I am confident that when Allen delivers the TTn3.5 Dh body etch, it will accomodate to the MP15DC power unit quite nicely, thus giving us the opportunity to operate an NZR locomotive some would say is a serious challenger for the "most ugly" diesel prize.

Regrettably, having left my camera if Jafastan, I am temporarily unable to embellish this account with pictures - you will all just have to wait till the week-end to view this project status.

Here are a couple of pix of the Atlas MP15DC donor power mechanism for the SAR 91 etch (in 2.5mm scale - also pictured), which will also be tried in the GE Dh etched body when it arrives in the next month or so. Note the DCC sound equipped chip figuring prominently  - may require some "shaving" of the muck metal body block at one end for the Dh.

I have also attached a pix of a forlorn "little" Dbr  1282 resting up outside in the Whangarei yard, now they have trashed the engine shed there.

how to open a MP15DC ? check this link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJw8lU4zN9k&feature=email  (MP15DC starts @ 3:57)

Is there a speaker hidden in there somewhere?

nice brass work, whats with the cab? 

(1) Thanks for the link Steve - that would have made for less palpitations as the removal proceeded; (2) speaker is in otherside, can also be fitted in the large undeframe tank, but requires some machining to hollow that out; (3) re the cab - don't get confused - this is the already available TTn3.5 scale etch for the South African Railways Class 91 version of the GE U 6 -10 series - same family as the NZR Dh, but SAR version has a low hood ahead of the cab - still waiting for the trial etch for the NZR Dh class from Allen.

is that whots with the dx style cab?

Hi everyone,

N scale Atlas  EMD MP15DC chassis for sale from steve4painting, if you want a Dh.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Toys-models/Models/Railway/Locomotives/auction-284048587.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Toys-models/Models/Railway/Locomotives/auction-284052925.htm

Russ

I've got a Concor MP15dc for sale if anyone wants one. I purchased 4 from the US. Sold 2, keeping one, and one spare. It has factory installed MT couplers.

And before someone says " but they aren't Atlas or Kato quality", I'll say that they run very nicely. The one for sale has only been test run. PM me if you're interested.

the ConCor MP15 are not DCC ready (the Atlas one is) but they have two flywheels...

...so they most certainly do run like a Kato ! 

http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/ccmp15.html

thanks Russel for the 'plug'...

Accompanying the Mk II a Drewry Ds etches from the UK, will be the Mk I version of the GE - Dh body etch - will place pix of this in its "flattened" form, before any fiddling occurs to see how it will mate with the MP15DC power unit, which is sitting there forlornly awaiting its dress.

First impressions of the Mk 1 TTn3.5 GE Dh body etch just received from the UK, with footplate attached below at top of first pix; also enclosed a view of the etched details of the rear end of the long hood etch; doesnt' look too bad - will have to get the Etchmate going this week, to see how it matches up to the Atlas MP15 power unit - will report back with details. 

what is the story with the cab windows ? they don't seem to be right if compared with this pictures...

...on the side is one little windows and one big Mitre10 one, on the front the middle windows is of an ovale shape, square with rounded corners and the two big windows don't have the slope, they are square, or better oblong as well

if the etch is from a prehystoric version, would it be possible to have both cabs on the etch or have a modern cab etch available for an additional price ?

would it be possible to have the handrails etched as well ?

 Well spotted Steve - I already had this on the Mkii etch mods list, along with the coupler cut-outs and the front steps unit to add -like I said - its the mark 1 pilot etch - for trial fit to the chassis - please advise any other changes required as you spot them guys.

As back up north, was able to check my Dh file against pilot etch - Steve's pix undoubtedly confirm several Dh's currently have a different cab window configuration now (as do my pix of ones at Otahuhu recently) - however both Guild plans, & excellent construction article by Alex of his S scale version in Journal confirm that MkI pilot etch windows in the front are correct to have the triangular slant.( although the middle 2 are opening ones so don't look quite right as 4 same size flat ones. - thoughts on this?)

So, to accomodate the latest look (2010?) would need a new drawing for the cab as an option - other modifications which will be needed though include:

* etch through the two cab & rear headlights (to assist fitting working LEDs) 

* one window in rear cab needs to be square, not both the same as MkI etch has them

* panel needed for fitting over long hood behind cab

* triangular plates needed (4) to fit on headstocks l & r of coupler cut-outs

* battery boxes to fit under running plate as fold ups

[then all we need  to complete are the railings, hand grabs, mesh, horns, wipers, exhaust stack, & the prominent boxes on sides behind cab, plus the 4 steps .] 

Why not add the grills to the etch sheet?

how about pilot holes for airhoses in headstocks?

Russ

Thanks for those thoughts; after reflection on them and other matters over Labour Day, the following are the current deliberations on these:

1. pilot holes - for airhoses  - YES

2. handrails - probably NOT - these are round, whereas etches would be flat/square - a wire jig is probably the answer here

3. grilles - probably NOT - the various brands of fine mesh available are much better at representing these for the large "cut-outs"

4. "new" style cab - probably YES - once I track down a scale drawing &/or do the measures me-self

5. RP bogie sideframes  - YES PLEASE (after the Dfs)

Attached are some pix of Dh 2839 front & side with those spanking big windows well portrayed - way different to the early based plans on which the etch is based.

Also that bogie sideframe to tempt someone to produce a cosmetic version to attach please.

Have ordered some BLW bits to test to see how they may cope as dress up bits for horn etc.

if they are designed/etched slightly thinner than they should be and you put paint on they look more roundish than flat and way better than any attempt to build them out of wire with big solder dots at each connection point - just a thought...

Attached is a pix of a couple of US N scale locomotive detailing parts recently sourced as part of these etch loco kit projects, to gauge what is available which may be Kiwi-ised, its quality, sizing etc.

The first parts arriing include a nice little pair of Leslie air horns (is this what NZR used?) and a set of etches for a variety of diesel loco dress up details, ( lift rings, visors, etc)

Have spied a couple more which, if ok, will speed up the release of several of the projects which are on the go at present.

Hi weeduggie,

I've used a 3 horn nscale horn when I first started. Just cut the top 3rd horn of leaving the bottom two.

Have looked at quite a few etches from BLMA which look suitable for detailing.

Have done a casting for twin horns, that now goes in the loco kits.

Russ

well, I have to revise this statement, it doesen't look all that bad...

...or does it ?

 It would look very ok from the N view distance!

What is the footplate material please Steve?

it's etched brass and is part of weeduggie's DH kit in developement (it's the first test etch and I got the honour to build it and adjust it to the Atlas MP15 drive and figure out what has to be changed for the next test etch...)

...it's a sloooow process but we are on a good way.

 It looks great !

I'm sure weeduggie will be pleased....

Is there room in the long hood for a sound decoder and/or speaker? A Loksound rectangular speaker under the top grille would be ideal.

it depends how big the rectangular speaker is (just found this on the web, ESU Rectangular speaker 16 x 25mm (about 5/8 x 1 inch), there is room (if the Atlas light board is cut off and the LED reattached with wires) for 8mm high, 13,6mm wide and around 25mm long, but the Atlas drive can be modified if more space for the speaker is needed...

...to answer your question, no the ESU rectangular speaker will not fit, the shell is too narrow.

edit: the SoundTraxx #810112 rectangular speaker with a width of 14mm may can be squeezed in somehow

Test build looks like its coming along well! Look forward to getting my hands on an etch to build for myself.

Russ

Steve, have you compared body and chassis, against an nz120 plan for original locomotive?

It appears that the body and the footplate length don't match the plan layout.

Russ

these changes are already on the long list of all the modifications...

...the whole rear part is wrong for the NZ U10 version

Looks like Steve is making a very fair fist of assembling the Mk I trial Dh etch so far - as regards body/footplate/rear part possible modifications, the Mk I etch matches the NZ120 scaled plans for the Dh per the two Guild plans I noted in Post #1 of this thread.

Like all locos in NZ, the Dhs have had a number of "subtle" changes made to them during their various shoppings - we have already discussed the changes needed to produce a more" modern/current" cab window layout (which is planned as a separate etch option) - similarly changes have been made to the rear hood and the shunters refuges in the more recent photographed versions.

My intent with this etch is to produce an accurate version per the Guild plans, with upgrade cab options to suit more modern settings, as this is the major change visible at the old 2.5 m setting - the other small modifications to suit a particular loco, at a particular time/place is left to the individual modeller to create.   

Cheers for reply. It does look suited for an original Dh model. Checking on photos will reveal other little detail changes.

Russ

The following came in by email from

Dan Robirds (Oregon, USA):

I'm not sure I have even seen TT scale, much less narrow gauge TT. I stumbled across this website while looking for new information on the smaller GE Universal locomotives. Could you please post this within the GE Dh class thread, as it is information they were looking for. Dan

As you have already guessed, much of the information posted on the DieselData website is not correct. The persons posting much of the information apparently do not have any technical background on real locomotives.

The actual dimensions for a GE U10B are:

33'-6" or 10.209m over frame ends (headstocks) 6'-10" or 10.202m truck (bogie) wheelbase 18'-8" or 5.689m truck (bogie) centers 9'-0" or 2.743m wide over frame 12'-0" or 3.657 over top of cab 36" or 914mm wheel diameter (though 38" and 40" were options) These dimension are directly off a diagram in a GE U10B specification brochure in my collection.

The trucks/bogies on the Dh class are GE's floating bolster design, standard on this model. though a simpler design for switching only (limited to 45 mph) was available. This design is smaller than the standard gauge FB-2 design that had a 9'-0" wheelbase and 40" wheels. Using an FB-2 in N/160 scale to repesent a Dh track in TT/160 works out to a 1 inch error in wheelbase, but the wheel diameter is way off .

The U4B and U6B were first advertised in 1956 to replace GE's 50/52 model, using an uprated engine. Two pre-production 54 ton models were built for US Gypsum in California (36" gauge), but customers continued to order the 50 and

52 (short) ton models. In 1959, GE did begin actual production of the U6B - but it had been redesigned several times. The Santa Maria Valley #60 photo linked to is one of the first U6B built. In 1961 Caterpillar dropped the

D-397 engine line used in the 50/52/54 ton and U6B, replacing it with the larger bore D-398. The U8B used the V-12 D-398, and the U5B used the D-379

V-8 version of the same engine. Due to engine improvements, the U5B and U8B were replaced by the U6B and U10B in 1965. (The original GE advertised U10B was an upgraded U9B road switcher design with a Cooper-Bessemer engine, never

built.) About 1990, the U6B and U10B got the CAT 3508 and 3512 engines without changing the model designation (same hp), also used for repowers. The last U6B/U10B were built about 1993. (These were also built by GE Brasil, Nippon-Sharyo (only 1), Babcock & Wilcox (Spain), and Dorbyl (South Africa).)

Except for one hood door panel (sometimes), there is no external difference between a later model U6B and U10B. The SAR 91 class are model UM6B

(M=modified) specially designed for 24" gauge (different cab, traction motors and trucks/bogies), though some were recently converted to 42" gauge.

For the Dh class - it is claimed these were a cancelled order from the Philippine National Railways (who got several orders as their 2501 class), but I haven't found anything to support this. There are four different distinct UM10 versions, but otherwise there are few variations between U10B locos. Some do not have the air compressor cabinet behind the cab extending onto the walkway, this indicates a larger compressor or exhauster. The first high vents behind the cab vary if it is equipped with dynamic brakes (the Dh class do not have dynamics). If you look at older photos of the Dh class, you will see that there were built with four windows on the cab sides (outside fixed, inside sliders). These must have either worn or rusted out, replaced with the currrent three window arrangement. There is an engine air filter (protruding box in middle of hood) that appears on later units. The stepwells/switching steps on the Dh class are unique. I'm not sure if they were built this way or a Kiwi modification.

Good luck!

hi how do i upload photo's to the website yours Fred

fredking@kol.co.nz

Gidday Fred, good to see you here.

Follow the instructions at http://nz120.org/forumtopic/how-insert-images

Thanks Wes. Some interesting details.

Russ

Hi friends,

Very good job with this brass set for U10B's .

Could you tell me what firm is producing them? I would like to get some U10B's in H0 scale.

Thank you.

Juan Antonio

it's WMW, WeeduggieModelWorks...  :-)

I'm sure Greg will chime in here and let you know...